The Dealer Playbook

Ep. 664 - How to Create a High-Performance Dealership Culture, with Jill Schulman

• Michael Cirillo

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In this episode, my guest is Jill Schulman, USMC veteran, leadership coach, and author of The Bravery Effect.

We dig into the surprising role that bravery plays in building high-performing cultures—not just in the military, but in dealerships, teams, and even our personal lives.

Jill shares the science behind why playing it safe actually leads to burnout, anxiety, and unhappiness, and how the most fulfilled, successful people have something in common: they’ve learned how to build bravery like a muscle.

We talk about:

  • What holds people back from going after what they really want
  • Why “positive vibes only” doesn’t actually lead to happiness
  • How to teach your team to want accountability, not run from it
  • What it takes to lead yourself before you try to lead others
  • And how leaders can create an environment where performance and wellbeing grow together

You’ll also hear practical tools—backed by real research—that Jill uses with Fortune 500 companies to help people take bold action, stay mentally strong, and avoid what she calls the “comfort trap.”

If you’ve ever felt like you were capable of more but couldn’t get past the fear, or if you're in leadership and want to help your team do hard things without burning out, this episode’s going to give you some serious perspective.

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MC:

This episode is brought to you by FlexDealer. Hey auto industry, welcome to this episode of the Dealer Playbook Podcast. We're going to be talking all about my favorite topic creating a culture of high performance by leveraging the science of bravery with my guest, jill Shulman. Stay tuned. Hey, Jill, welcome to the Dealer Playbook. Thank you for having me, I have to point out. Usmc veteran. Thank you for your service.

MC:

Thank you I think it's so tremendous and I'm so infatuated by, by the services. I mean many that listen know, uh, my, my counterpart, my right hand, emerson Abria, who's a 20 year retired veteran and and I've learned so much about the U S Marine Corps through him, I just want to be like just tell, just tell us everything you know. I'm just that that is a topic in and of itself. I feel like we could have a podcast about, but I want to dig into this. You are, first of all, a tremendous leader. I can already tell just by the way you articulate the thoughts you have around our subject matter today, which I'm going to get to. But I want to ask you, first and foremost, how did you land on bravery as the thing that creates a high performance culture?

Jill:

Yeah, yeah, great question. A couple of years ago I decided to go back to school. Talk about being brave. I haven't been in college since I was 18 to 22, but I'm one of those lifelong learners. I love learning more and my business is. I have a leadership development business, so it's always my job to be learning. And what's the latest in organizational psychology? Like what do I know that if my clients will do it will actually move the needle on performance? You know culture, all that.

Jill:

So I stumbled on onto this, the subject of the science of happiness and well-being. Did you even know that that existed? Right, there's, there's a scientific study of elevating happiness and well-being and it's called positive psychology. And I was like, ooh, what is this all about? And the reason I got interested in it is because there's this. There's this gentleman, his name is Sean Aker and he wrote a book called the Happiness Advantage. I watched his TED Talk and then I read his book and it was all about how positive emotions that's the fuel for driving results. And I was like wait a second here.

Jill:

So I got obsessed with, like, the psychology of happiness and well-being and how it can impact business results. So when I started reading all these books, I'm like I want to study this and I decided to actually went back to school. So University of Pennsylvania has the very first program. It's like the best school in the world on positive psychology. And I went back to school and when I was back and studying the science of happiness and wellbeing, what I stumbled upon is a little like morsel little slice that became the most interesting to me. What I think is most needed in the world is people need to understand that they can build their bravery muscle. There's so many, there's so many misconceptions out there. One of them if I can just talk about is our world. We're getting too damn soft.

MC:

Preach, let's go. Yeah, we are. Yes, I think it's just because there's so much convenience out there.

Jill:

And then you said you have a son, right.

MC:

Two sons.

Jill:

And I have two daughters and I feel like I sometimes see the world through their lens and everything they're learning is like, oh, have self-care days and no stress, and if it's challenging, like don't do it. Like I feel like there's this bill of goods being sent sold out there Like the, the. The secret to happiness is just having a comfortable, easy life, and that's where we have to look at the scientific study. You guys, that is not the truth. And I and as I was studying positive psychology and I see the messages and I, I feel like the direction we're going in the world. I, I feel like the direction we're going in the world, like, oh, like comfort equals happiness. That is bullshit. I can't know if I don't have a concern here, but it is. It just. It's just not the truth. And and I could just come in and say, like you know, this is what I think, cause I'm Jill and I'm a badass like United States Marine, like no one really cares about my opinion. So what I like to bring is let's look at the evidence, the scientific facts, of what really can bring you your best life. And so I just dove into that and what I found is like bravery is really that key ingredient, that that we need to be able to go after what we want.

Jill:

So you know, in the scientific study of happiness and wellbeing, um, there's five things that we know um can lead to higher levels of happiness and wellbeing, and and one of them is accomplishment. So there's this, there's this acronym, perma. What is positive emotions? P, so that is experiencing like joy and happiness in the moment. But that's only one fifth of happiness. Some people think that joy and happiness in the moment is that's all what happened. No, it's only one fifth. And then the E in PERMA is engagement getting into flow. The R is relationships, the quality of our relationships. M is meaning and A is accomplishment. And and I kind of dove into that accomplishment, like a lot of people want to what do we want to accomplish? They've got to be meaningful, they've got to be intrinsically motivating.

Jill:

But what holds people back from really accomplishing what they want in life is fear. So I, as I dug into it, I'm like this is it? People want to stay comfortable. They, they have fear holding them back, and if what we really want and happiness is on the other side of something, really hard, it takes bravery to get there. So I just ended up doing a deep dive and gotten to know all the researchers on bravery and really like seeking to understand it.

Jill:

So that's what I'm on a mission to do is help people understand that bravery isn't something you're born with, you know. It's something that you can build, like a muscle, like if someone wants to be strong, you know, and they and they have wimpy arms and they're not fit, they don't just say, oh, I'm just, I wasn't born this way. They go no, you got to do the work. So anyone can build the skill of bravery and when they do, then it's amazing what it does to that person in terms of, like, their self-confidence increases. You know, they have more of an impact in the world and then that's why it leads to better, higher levels of happiness and well-being is because it's that, that the increase in self-confidence and self-efficacy, like you feel like you're proud in the mirror and you're like that is someone I'm proud of because of what I've accomplished and I have stepped forward in the presence of fear to go after what I want.

Jill:

So it's a really good answer to a simple question.

MC:

I love, no, I love this. And answer to a simple question I love no, I, I love this. Uh, and you'll notice, I look down, uh, the the audience knows this about me I'm a ferocious note taker, okay, um, and so, as you're, as you're talking, I mean there's so many things that are popping out to me. Um, I think about my own journey and the, the, the things that have led me to where I am today, going from a 20 something year old, suicidally depressed for a decade thought I wouldn't measure to much and passing through a period of pain that I look back now. This is going to sound so weird. I hope everyone takes this in the right context.

MC:

I look back now with a certain degree of fondness because of what came as a result facing fear, as you're talking about, facing the things that scared the absolute crap out of me, one of which, probably the pinnacle of which is mediocrity. I learned that I was afraid of the possibility of living living a mediocre life, and then peel back the onion layers on that. What does a mediocre mean to me? What's my definition of that? What's my definition of happiness and success and all these things? And you've said something in interviews I want to touch on because I think it feeds into this. And pre-show, I said you're the only other person I've heard say this and I wonder if it. I can't help but wonder, jill, if it comes from this idea of passing through pain and doing the hard work which is you know. I think I might've just said this to my oldest son a week ago. I'm like bro.

Jill:

I want to hear it. I want to hear it.

MC:

Get comfortable being uncomfortable, because it's going to be a wild ride if you don't embrace it. You need to wrap a warm hug around the discomfort, because that's where all the growth happens, and I heard you say it in an interview and I'm like, oh my gosh, I need to learn more about Jill's thought process on that. Talk to me about how do we get comfortable being uncomfortable and facing fear.

Jill:

Yeah, yeah, I love it, I love it. In the Marine Corps, we, you know, we say, instead of we don't say get comfortable, being uncomfortable, we call it embrace the suck. That's what we say in the Marine Corps. We got this motto embrace the suck. But what we mean by that is, you know, when we get uncomfortable, that's where the true growth comes, and then that growth and getting through the hard times is what helps us self-actualize, really in psychology. So, like any, anything that you really want in life is on the other side of something hard. So a common thing that I do when I speak to audiences across the world is I'll usually ask people to reflect on what is your most proud accomplishment, what is that one thing, and I have people reflect and they write it down and I'm like, no, tell me, take some notes on the journey to achieve it. And they take the notes on it right, and they share it with a partner.

Jill:

When we come back and we debrief it, like every single time, people, the thing that they're most proud of, like best moment in life, was preceded with this journeys of ups and downs and struggles, and the reason why it was so great is because it wasn't easy, Like if something was just super easy, like you try doing something and then two days later you have it, you wouldn't call it your, your best thing in life.

Jill:

You know, and you like you just had that reflection Like you look back and go, like I actually look back at, I look back on that experience with fondness because of look at who you are as a person, because you got through it.

Jill:

So you know, whenever we encounter adversity or challenges and we face it and we overcome it, that makes us stronger and makes us more proud. So, if we want to be more successful, we want to be more proud, if we want to live a life without regret, we need to. In those moments where you're faced with, you know like, uh, like two roads going in two directions. One is the road of comfort, like I don't want to deal with it, I just want to take the easy path. Or I'm going to face the fear and I'm going to go toward it. Like every single time, if you turn left, you go down the comfortable road, it's not going to lead to the same life of fulfillment as if you go down the right and you you turn toward the adversity. That is is between you and what you really want, right.

MC:

And so yeah. People. Maybe one of the initial fears is that they're too, too afraid to admit what they actually want. Well, there's a lot of comfort because they're like comfort sounds safe.

Jill:

I'm too afraid to admit that.

MC:

I want, I don't know whatever.

Jill:

Yeah Well, and I just say, like my message isn't great for everyone. I'm like if you want a more, if you want a more how do I say this in a way that does if you want a bigger life where you're having a bigger impact, if you want more out of life, then I'm your girl and I will give you all the strategies on how to get that and everything is very evidence-based. So I be confident. But if there's people that say I just want to coast and I'm happy with it, I'll say you, do you like? I got people. People have to want it Right. But then the people that say that they want the comfortable life, they'll come back to me in 10 years and go all right, what you got, because I'm really, I'm actually. So when you, when you choose the comfortable path, that actually leads to usually depression, anxiety, right, it's what I call the comfort trap. In fact I talk about it in my book, like so, like when you have that decision like, hmm, all right, so do I really want to face the fear and do the hard thing, or do I want to just choose the little safety nest of comfort? Each time you choose comfort right In the moment, it feels good, but then that makes you weaker and the next time there's a challenge, you're more apt. So this is a compounding impact. If you keep choosing safe, comfortable, you literally become weaker and weaker over time. Sometimes I'm using the analogy of trees. This is a fascinating thing about trees, like, if you, um, there's actually a biosphere in um, in Arizona, where they created this biosphere and they, they grew all this vegetation and they're doing research for, like, if they could ever grow things like you know, maybe like on the moon or something like that. But they had this big biosphere, this big scientific experiment, and these trees, specifically these palm trees they just shot up super, super fast. Um, and they thought this is amazing, these trees have never grown this fast. This is great. And they had to actually move the trees out of the biosphere because they were getting too high and they brought them to some different resorts. Well, I promise I'm going somewhere that's going to relate. I promise you, I'm with you. But they found that these trees that they thought were so healthy and so vibrant and just such great trees, when they moved them to their eventual destination and put them in this resort, this, this resort, um, the first time there was any winds that exceeded 30 miles an hour, they fell over, they snapped.

Jill:

And this is the same thing we are as humans is, you know, when we avoid any type of stress or challenges, it makes us weaker and we don't want to be weak. So in a tree, like every time that a tree, as it's growing it, encounters stress, it actually creates the stronger called stress wood. It's the way the trunk is built. It just becomes so much stronger and able to withstand In order for us to be able to live our best life. Like we don't want to be weak, because what if some something happens to us? Right, and we need to be resilient.

Jill:

If we're not going after discomfort on a regular basis, then when life does give us a curve ball, we're going to be less apt to deal with it. So when people ask me about resilience and they want me to speak on resilience, I'm I'm like, all right, like the key to resilience is not being ready for adversity. I want you so, when uncomfortable things come your way, you're ready for it. No, you've got to, you've got to. I want you to pursue discomfort like weekend and week out, and then you get comfortable being uncomfortable and you're going to be that much more apt to respond to any challenges that come your way. I don't even remember your original question.

MC:

I went off on a tangent no, this is perfect, um, where I'm okay. So I wrote down biosphere, I wrote down trees, I wrote down stress wood and then my mind, immediately, as you concluded, went to, and the thing of it is, the tree doesn't know when the wind will blow, but that it will at some point blow, and I think it's. It's so interesting when you factor in human nature, because we're like I want good times all the time and and I know bad things will happen, but let's pretend they never will, and then and then we're faced with them. You know, I look at the auto industry, which is who we primarily speak to. I mean, worldwide pandemic shuts everything down, everyone gets furloughed, they can't sell cars, supply chain issues. You know all of these unknowns, basically the worst thing that could happen to your business, barring an asteroid, you know, collision with earth. And I can't help but wish that we were more prepared and, and to your point, shying away from the hard things, choosing the going down the path of comfort, is not how you prepare for hard times and challenges, thing I think I could have ever faced.

MC:

I feel like, gave me, um, a tolerance against what most, what? What causes most people to shut down. You know, um, I did mission work in the philippines for a few years and in my early 20s, and and that experience and just seeing how people, all of these things that bring you outside of your comfort zone, I would say cause you to go. This isn't an issue. I can breathe, my arms and fingers move, my brain works. I can make it out of this. I can do something about this. Hey, does your marketing agency suck? Listen, before we hop back into this episode, I know you know me as the host of the dealer Playbook, but did you also know that I'm the CEO of FlexDealer, an agency that's helping dealers capture better quality leads from local SEO and hyper-targeted ads that convert? So if you want to sell more cars and finally have a partner that's in it with you, that doesn't suck. Visit FlexDealercom. Let's hop back into this episode. Visit flexdealercom let's hop back into this episode.

Jill:

I'm okay, like it was scary, but I took a step forward and I'm doing it, or I can handle the things that come our way. Yeah, exactly, well, I can. I can share a little like the practical strategies, because we're you know, we're you know, we're talking kind of more theoretically on what people should do. But I think the other thing that I'm trying to do to serve my audiences that I speak to and is teach them that, instead of just saying like look at me, I'm really brave. Oh, like beat my chest and say I hope I inspire you to go out there and be brave. A lot of speakers in my world that's what they do is they just tell stories about how brave they are and then they just leave and they're like I hope that inspired you, right, but really that doesn't help people be braver. We need to give them like evidence-based tools on how to develop that bravery muscle.

Jill:

So I teach is we do a lot of work on cognitive mindset. That's my psychology background. Like we need to change our belief systems. We need to believe that we can do hard things and that stress and challenges are good things that make us stronger. So there's a lot of literature on growth mindset. Carol from Stanford is famous with that.

Jill:

A lot of people know that if you have kids because they talk a lot about growth mindset for kids, but it applies to us as well. And growth mindset is the opposite of fixed mindset. People just think fixed mindset is like oh well, I'm just not good at that, I could never do that. Growth mindset is with hard work and effort I can become skilled in that. It's not going to be easy, but it's my effort that I put into something that will lead to my ability to be able to develop a skill versus I'm good at it or not.

Jill:

So that fixed versus growth mindset, and then also just realizing that the stress and challenges that you'll encounter on the journey to growing and developing isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing. So if you think that stress is bad for you, then when you experience stress you're going to freak out and it's going to not. You're not going to be great at handling stress. There's this research by um Allie Crum and Kelly McGonigal these um, amazing researchers and they've actually found people's mindset to stress is predictive of their reaction to stress. So can I just give a little secret here?

MC:

Yeah.

Jill:

Stress is not going to go away, adversity is not going to go away. So just by telling people like, oh, stress is bad, eliminate all stress in life, like that is the wrong message, like I get so frustrated. Like we need to make people better at handling stress because there's always going to be stress in our lives. You know, basically their research said that if you believe stress is bad, then when something stressful happens, you're going to have a psychological response that is unhealthy and it usually you'll be stuck and then also you actually have a physiological response that's not good. Your blood pressure goes up. And then if people are responding bad to stress and they're stressed for 20, 30 years, no wonder they have premature heart attacks. But if you think that stress is, this is my body like preparing me to perform at my best. And when I feel these emotions of like shakiness and maybe I'll call it anxiety, I'm gonna start reframing it as like I'm excited and my body's getting me ready to perform at my best, right, like stress makes me stronger. The difference in your belief is an absolute game changer. So we actually teach people like how to develop a growth mindset stress is enhancing mindset and then how to master, sometimes the dialogue in our heads and I wanted to get into that, because that that's a whole podcast in itself is how to change. You know, um, you know the, the self-talk that we have in our head. So that's so we got to first believe that we can do hard things and that the stress and challenges on the journey are going to make us stronger and make us better, and it's a good thing.

Jill:

And then we talk about brave actions. So you ever run into someone in your life that talks about I want to do this, here's a goal, I'm going to do this. I've got vision boards and all this I'm going to manifest, but then they don't take a step forward to actually achieving it. So we have to start with mindset, but we need to teach people how to actually take steps forward. So it's what I call brave action, but it's a lot of the science of habit teaching people to not to attack their day and do the hardest thing first. So a lot of things on how you schedule your time and effort and how do you prime yourself from a psychological point of view to actually take that action each day, and then what that does to you to get that momentum, and that reinforces the mindset.

Jill:

And then the last thing is what I call brave relationships. Surround yourself with the people you know, um, that will encourage you to do the hard thing, not don't surround yourself with other people that sit on the couch. Sit on the couch binge watching Netflix all day and scrolling through their phones and they're not trying to push themselves. So curate that group of people that are going to support your desire to accomplish hard things and, hopefully, people that have done it themselves, that they have wisdom and experience that you can benefit from. And when you're going through the ups and downs of that journey, they're going to be the one there to support you and say you can do it, keep moving forward, versus other people say this is so hard, why are you doing that? Be easy on yourself, just quit. So that's kind of practical strategies. Those three like we got to work on mindset, we got to work on our actions.

MC:

We got to we got to work on our actions. We got to. We got to work on who we're surrounding ourselves with and if you do those three things, you will be unstoppable. You know it's like guys, and I'm breaking the fourth wall here now because I've interviewed 680 experts from in and out of the car business. From in and out of the car business, the Jill Shulmans of the world, the Jill Conraths, the Grant Cardones and Gary Vees, and you name it. They've been on this show and there are principles that the elite high performers have in common and I'm hoping that you've picked up on these over the last 680 episodes.

MC:

When you say, surround yourself with the right people, you'd have to be living under a rock at this point to not agree with that statement. Brave action. I love the way that you frame that. It's so powerful and mindset. This leads to the last thing that I want to just pick your brain on it's correlation into an organization. You say so. This is the second thing.

MC:

I heard you say that I was like man Jill, come on, how, see? See, because I think and I'm sure you see this in the organizations that you consult and advise and the groups you speak to, everyone wants the shiny title so they can flex. They want that. I'm a manager, I'm a head of something, I'm a director, I'm a whatever.

MC:

And I sit here and my sentiment is how can you ever lead a group of people at work if you don't know how to lead people at home first, like, if you're not a leader at home, who cares if you've got a leadership title? And also if you don't have basic disciplines to lead yourself? And I've heard you say, like, how can? My philosophy and maybe I'm wrong, but my mindset is leadership is not how well I can logistically deploy or execute a program. Leadership to me is here are the behaviors, the mindsets, the attitudes that I desire you to demonstrate for you, that you can learn from me so that all of our lives are better together. Like don't do what I say, actually do what I do. I need to live my life in a way that that is worth them, worth following. You know, um, tell me more about this, cause I know you, you've said it and I think it ties into all of these things and we perpetually struggle with it in organizations because we think the minute we get that leadership title, that makes us a leader.

Jill:

Oh my gosh. Yes, you hit on a hot button for me. I love this, love it. So I just want to agree with what you said. Like, if you want to be a great leader, a people leader at work, you first have to learn how to lead yourself. So that's why, like I, like, I'm, I'm, I do. I've been doing leadership development for 15 years and you know fortune 500 companies, so I spent a lot of time on like, how do I lead others? But I always go back to like first it's how you lead yourself. That's really important. You got to first lead yourself. I love how you talked about leading your family in order to be able to perform at work. But here's the challenge.

Jill:

I want to give a little bit of grace to the new leaders out there, because sometimes it's not their fault. So what normally happens in organizations is you are the top performer, you are the best at doing the thing In a dealership out there, you're best at selling cars or doing service, or you, you're best at the job, and so the organization says you are the very best at doing what you're doing. So we're going to promote you to a leadership position, and no one really teaches people how to do the job of leading people. And the job of leading human beings is totally different than the job of doing the job itself of driving results. And so a lot of the training that we do at companies, it's like, oh, let's, let's teach you how to better sell and how to better do customer service and all of that. But are we teaching people how to lead? And that's the job of a leader.

Jill:

Your job as a leader is how do you help your people become the best versions of themselves? How do they develop the mindset? How do they take the right actions? You know, how are they developing, you know, relationships at work where they can learn and grow from one another. So, you know, I think that's kind of one of the things we've got to take some ownership for. Is the leadership team, or the high level, like the owners of, you know, the businesses is like we've got to set our people up for success, like we've got to teach them how to lead and and so many like you know so many leaders and I love teaching new leaders. It's like my favorite because they're like, they're like little sponges, but you know when I, when I tell them, like you know, your job is to serve. They're like what, what, what, what to serve. Like I'm the leader, all of you peon.

Jill:

You're going to serve me and I'm like okay, so this is where we go to mindset Like your job is like check your ego at the door Right and your job every day when you go to work is you. You know, first of all, you need to have the strategy and the goals. That has to come from the top down strategy, culture, values, goals, responsibilities. That's got to flow down. But once that's done, when you go to work each day, ask yourself the question how can I best serve my team so that they can be the most successful, so they can succeed and win? How do I help them create more belief that they can achieve things? How do I help people train them on the skills that are going to make them successful?

Jill:

And sometimes we don't teach leaders how to do that. So so I've I've got a little bit of grace, because if they haven't been taught how to lead, but the job is so different, yeah, you know, we're leading human beings that are complex beings that have skills and will and emotions, and you got to know how to do all that stuff to motivate, inspire and support your team success. And yeah, so that's definitely a hot button. Yeah, I completely agree with everything you said.

MC:

I want to end on this because I think it ties into it. You've mentioned the environment and I think this kind of ties into it and how leaders are responsible for it. I don't know if you're familiar with Chris Bosch. She's a happiness and like work culture professional. I had her on the show oh gosh, I don't know five or six years ago, and something she said. What you're talking about here and your subject matter reminds me of something she said, which is that it is not the leader's responsibility to make employees happy. It is their responsibility to create an environment in which happiness can exist.

Jill:

Yeah.

MC:

What are your thoughts? What's your take?

Jill:

Okay, I love that we're going to try to bring happiness in the workplace, but I just want to add a little bit of layer, a little layer to this, bringing in some evidence. So if you have a bunch of happy losers at work that are not getting the job done, you are failing as a leader. So sometimes over emphasis on like.

Jill:

I just want everyone to come in and be happy and we're going to like shoot the shit and we're going to like we're going to be talking about you know, um, so that is not the goal. How do you create a culture with both high standards of performance, high accountability, and that environment of psychological safety and positive emotions and happiness? So when you do these two things together and I'm citing really something that Amy Edmondson from Harvard, she teaches in her book about psychological safety, the fearless organization but she says, like, if you, if you really focus on psychological safety, happiness in the workplace, without the high standards and accountability, you end up getting what I call happy losers. I can't remember what she calls, it apathetic or whatever. But that's not good for the employee because they're not gonna learn and grow, it's not good for our customers, it's not good for the business. But if you look at the opposite of the scale, if you have a culture of high standards, high accountability, but you don't have people with psychological safety and they enjoy work, happiness at work, then you just have an environment, a culture of, of, of stress and anxiety, and that's also what you don't want.

Jill:

But if you can put the two things together and this is what leaders need to realize, like sometimes leaders think that I have to make a choice. I've got to make a choice. Am I going to be a jerk and hold people accountable and no one's going to like me, or do I get to be nice and not hold people to standards? And you don't have to make that choice and it's not that conundrum. You can have the two of them together. Care enough about your people that believe in their potential that they can achieve the high standard, and you care enough about them and you believe enough in them that you will hold them accountable and help them get there.

Jill:

So you want to have that happiness and psychological safety along with a high standard. So you have a culture of high performance where everyone is striving to achieve or exceed the high standards that we have. So people go to work and say like I work in a place that I have pride, I bring value and not just the boss holds me accountable. We all care about the high standards and then we're going to hold one another accountable. So I would just add that layer, like sometimes in in my world of positive psychology. People I think spend too much time just talking about positive emotion and I'm like remember it's one fifth of happiness and well-being. So I do care about smiling employees coming in, but we can't only focus on that. It's got to be in service to the mission, the goals you know and the strategy that we have.

MC:

I love this. I love this conversation. Thank you so much for joining me.

Jill:

How can those listening and watching connect with you? You can follow me on any social media LinkedIn, instagram, facebook, twitter, like all those things, um, and what I try to do there is I try to give like little daily messages, because a lot of times we need a little daily message to remind us to do hard things and to be brave. So I try to give like little messages to like everyone. So follow me there, um, or just my website is jillschulmancom Um. My last name is spelled S C H, u, l, m A, so Jill shulmancom Um, and then my book is you can find my book anywhere.

Jill:

Anywhere books are sold. You can find the bravery effect Um, there's no other book named that. So if you just type in the bravery effect, you'll find my book, um, and the book is written as a parable. So I tried to make it like, not like the. The books I like to read are like the heavy science with all the theory and like all the studies, and most people don't like to read that shit. They just want to hear like, tell me that. So I wrapped all of the science of bravery into an easy to read, entertaining story that you can read in about two hours but you'll learn all the tips. So that's where you can find my book.

MC:

Well, this has been a joy and a delight. Thanks so much for joining me on the dealer playbook podcast. And hey, if you made it this far in the episode, which, in fact, is the end, well, guess what? We're going to get you some free copies of Jill's book. The bravery effect. You're going to have to check out the show notes over at the dealer playbookcom where you can see how to get a free copy of Jill's book. Jill, thanks so much for joining me on the dealer playbook podcast.

Jill:

Thanks for having me, that was fun.

MC:

Hey, thanks for listening to the dealer playbook podcast. If you enjoyed tuning in, please subscribe, share and hit that like button. You can also join us and the DPB community on social media. Check back next week for a new dealer playbook episode. Thanks so much for joining.

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Michael Cirillo

Host